IRC logs for #respimg, 2014-11-18 (GMT)

2014-11-17
2014-11-19
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[00:06:36]<JonathanNeal_>committed https://github.com/jonathantneal/hitch-element-queries
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[03:53:33]<JonathanNeal_>Ahoy!
[03:54:12]<JonathanNeal_>What do you think of the following definitions: “Element Queries are a yet-proposed CSS module allowing content rendering to adapt to conditions such as the width, height, aspect ratio, and orientation of an element.”
[03:54:38]<JonathanNeal_>“Element queries allow the presentation of content to be tailored to a wide range of viewing experiences without having to change the content itself.”
[03:55:04]<JonathanNeal_>“Element queries allow developers to style elements based on their size.”
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[04:27:05]<lawnsea>for the last one, maybe "size and shape"?
[04:27:27]<lawnsea>otherwise, those sounds good to me, JonathanNeal_
[04:28:56]<JonathanNeal_>Ooo, good call, lawnsea.
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[11:32:50]<seriema>zcorpan: hi! thanks for the tip with sizes="600px", but now the image doesn't change when viewport changes.
[11:33:40]<zcorpan>seriema: then i still don't understand what behavior it is you want
[11:35:56]<seriema>haha I'm going to freak out soon =)
[11:36:30]<seriema>shrink = yes, grow = no, change on viewport size = yes
[11:37:10]<zcorpan>use <picture> + max-width:100%
[11:37:45]<zcorpan>srcset doesn't guarantee changes on viewport resize
[11:38:35]<seriema>yepp that's probably the best one for me
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[15:40:27]<TabAtkins>zcorpan: sereima wants the image to be the viewport width, unless that would be larger than 1200px, in which case it should max at that.
[15:44:45]<zcorpan>botie: inform seriema so then sizes="(min-width: 1200px) 1200px, 100vw"
[15:44:46]<botie>will do
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[19:16:47]<mdmcginn>JonathanNeal_: Did you mean "Element Queries are an as-yet-unproposed CSS module..."?
[19:35:12]<JonathanNeal_>mdmcginn: it sounds odd with two "as" in there.
[19:35:29]<TabAtkins>JonathanNeal_: There's only one "as"?
[19:35:56]<TabAtkins>Unless you mean the "as" later in the sentence. That's far enough away that I think it's fine.
[19:35:57]<JonathanNeal_>Sorry. But it's also a double negative.
[19:36:06]<JonathanNeal_>I had trouble reading it.
[19:36:33]<TabAtkins>Okay, but I don't think "yet-proposed" is idiomatic.
[19:36:54]<JonathanNeal_>But if it's more grammatically correct, i would believe you.
[19:37:28]<TabAtkins>My eyes skipped over it previously, assuming it was "as-yet-unproposed". I've never seen "yet-proposed" used before, and it doesn't parse properly if interpreted non-idiomatically.
[19:37:31]<JonathanNeal_>Well, I would be happy to change it, or see it changed.
[19:37:54]<mdmcginn>"Element Queries haven't been proposed yet as a CSS module, but they would allow content rendering to adapt to conditions such as the width, height, aspect ratio, and orientation of an element.”
[19:38:17]<JonathanNeal_>Sorry for any confusion. Language is weird. Your help is appreciated.
[19:39:16]<mdmcginn>"When proposed as a CSS module, Element Queries would allow..."
[19:40:03]<mdmcginn>Or maybe the "would" expresses that it hasn't been proposed yet.
[19:40:24]<JonathanNeal_>Here is the current language in the repo, with your initial correction...
[19:40:39]<JonathanNeal_>“Element queries are an as-yet-unproposed CSS module that allow developers to style elements based on their size and shape.”
[19:40:45]<JonathanNeal_>“Element queries are the natural and much-needed evolution of Media queries. Where Media Queries care about the size of the screen, Element Queries care about the size of the thing. As a result, element queries allow content to adapt to a wide range of viewing experiences without having to change the content itself, as well as reduce the complexity of
[19:40:45]<JonathanNeal_>stylesheets by removing the need to specify all of the possible layout configuration between the screen and an element.”
[19:41:42]<JonathanNeal_>And I would change the end of that to read “… between the screen and the element being styled.”
[19:42:51]<JonathanNeal_>When I refer to Element queries *are* an as-yet-unproposed *module* that … (allow|allows|would allow) ?
[19:43:28]<JonathanNeal_>Excuse me, I meant to delete “When I refer to”
[19:43:54]<mdmcginn>module allows
[19:44:30]<mdmcginn>No, "module would allow" is better.
[19:45:15]<JonathanNeal_>module that would allow, you mean?
[19:45:23]<JonathanNeal_>As in “Element queries are an as-yet-unproposed CSS module that would allow developers to style elements based on their size and shape.” ?
[19:46:22]<mdmcginn>Yes.
[19:47:17]<JonathanNeal_>Thanks, mdmcginn, TabAtkins!
[19:47:20]<mdmcginn>Unless we could get by with "Element Queries would allow developers to style elements based on their size and shape."
[19:49:08]<mdmcginn>The Riting Issues Community Group
[19:49:21]<JonathanNeal_>mdmcginn: one beef I had (and have) with the explanation of mqs is that there is rarely a “media queries are …”
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[19:50:33]<JonathanNeal_>Starting with “Element Queries would allow” gets to the point by forgetting to mention what it is.
[19:51:04]<mdmcginn>A CSS module?
[19:51:16]<JonathanNeal_>Yes, I would almost prefer something like “*As yet unproposed*, Element queries are a CSS module that would allow developers to style elements based on their size and shape.”
[19:51:39]<JonathanNeal_>oh and then i’d kill *would*
[19:52:35]<mdmcginn>That is sounding good. Should Queries be capitalized?
[19:53:37]<JonathanNeal_>You tell me. I have no idea. Maybe when they’re used as the name of a module?
[19:53:51]<mdmcginn>Yes, I think so.
[19:54:07]<mdmcginn>As yet unproposed, the Element Queries CSS module allows developers to style elements based on their size and shape.
[19:54:47]<JonathanNeal_>Perfect.
[19:55:24]<mdmcginn>Great
[19:56:06]<JonathanNeal_>Okay, do you mind if I do a sanity check of each sentence with you?
[19:57:05]<JonathanNeal_>mdmcginn?
[19:58:12]<mdmcginn>Yes
[19:58:19]<JonathanNeal_>> *As yet unproposed*, the Element Queries CSS module allows developers to style elements based on their size and shape.
[19:58:29]<mdmcginn>Good
[19:58:39]<JonathanNeal_>> Element queries are the natural and much-needed evolution of Media Queries.
[19:58:52]<JonathanNeal_>> Element Queries are the natural and much-needed evolution of Media Queries.
[19:59:02]<mdmcginn>Yeah, sure.
[19:59:11]<JonathanNeal_>> Where Media Queries cared about the size of the *screen*, Element Queries care about the size of the *thing*.
[19:59:33]<mdmcginn>I like that.
[19:59:35]<JonathanNeal_>> As a result, Element Queries allow content to adapt to a wide range of viewing experiences without having to change the content itself.
[19:59:50]<mdmcginn>Yes
[19:59:52]<JonathanNeal_>> They also reduce the complexity of stylesheets by removing the need to specify all of the possible layout configuration between the screen and the element being styled.
[20:00:28]<JonathanNeal_>> They also reduce the complexity of stylesheets by removing the need to specify all of the possible layout configurations between the screen and the element being styled.
[20:00:55]<mdmcginn>That's longer and could be simplified. Let me think.
[20:01:02]<JonathanNeal_>Thank you.
[20:04:26]<mdmcginn>They also simplify stylesheets by...
[20:04:52]* JonathanNeal_ follows. Is there more?
[20:05:17]<mdmcginn>The sentence is saying quite a lot. It's hard to simplify it.
[20:05:18]<JonathanNeal_>> They also simplify stylesheets by removing the need to specify all of the possible layout configurations between the screen and the element being styled.
[20:06:02]<JonathanNeal_>You can break it apart, if it helps.
[20:06:29]<JonathanNeal_>> They also simplify stylesheets by removing the need to specify any layout conditions between the screen and the element being styled.
[20:06:47]<mdmcginn>That is getting better.
[20:07:13]<mdmcginn>Or "every layout condition"?
[20:07:47]<mdmcginn>No
[20:08:28]<mdmcginn>No, I think that's about as good as one sentence can get.
[20:08:55]<mdmcginn>Detailed explanations are the reason we have paragraphs.
[20:11:19]<Wilto>Serious workshoppin’ going on in here.
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[20:11:46]<JonathanNeal_>Yea, and I’ve pushed the changes to our projects.
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[20:12:46]<JonathanNeal_>These little improvements will make a big difference when they’re read for the first time by future advocates and skeptics.
[20:12:53]<JonathanNeal_>So thanks again, mdmcginn.
[20:12:58]<mdmcginn>You're welcome.
[20:13:00]<Wilto>Good stuff.
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[20:21:04]<botie>seriema, at 2014-11-18 15:44 UTC, zcorpan said: so then sizes="(min-width: 1200px) 1200px, 100vw"
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[20:45:06]<mdmcginn>Wilto: Web Components specs are edited by Dimitri Glazkov at Google, but I don't know if that was what you were asking, or if that makes him the honcho.
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